Hello and welcome to this week's episode of The OBM Educator. You might be able to tell from my voice, but all of the germs from my kiddos have finally caught up with me, so, a little under the weather today, talking isn't super great right now, but luckily what you're about to hear was actually recorded. A little bit ago I'm doing a mini coaching session, so in this mini coaching session you'll meet Kaylee, an OBM who struggles with enforcing boundaries and scope creep from her clients. I'm sure many of you can relate to her struggles I know I definitely can and have had those struggles in my own business as well as you could probably relate to the desires that she has for her business. So I hope that this episode is helpful for you. I hope you enjoy it and, without further ado, let's get into it.
Welcome to The OBM Educator. I'm your host, Amanda McVicker, a veteran OBM who serves six and seven figure entrepreneurs as well as educates new OBMs with the skills and confidence they need to start and grow their own successful online business management business. Follow along as I share valuable insights behind the scenes, sneak peeks and proven strategies to help you build a better OBM business. So, on your form, you said you wanted to talk about enforcing boundaries and scope creep. So is that still good? Yeah, so kind of give me a little bit of background on what's going on there.
01:30 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
So I have a few different clients and I think I mentioned this as well that I am currently on hourly still with them I haven't yet transitioned them to just monthly project retainers and it seems like they think that because I can manage things, that I can implement all the things too.
01:51
So I can be a web designer, I can be a social media manager, I can also do all of the VA tasks and still manage and oversee everything. So that's where I'm running into issues. I guess right now is that I want to be that person who can do all of the things and help them and be their go-to, but when that's maybe not your expertise, it's hard to implement those things well, when it's not maybe your area of expertise. Also, whenever you can do those things but maybe you just don't want to, it's not something that you're wanting to do on a monthly basis. Like saying no and putting those boundaries up, or whenever they're emailing you or voxing you at like 10 o'clock at night and being like no, like just because I'm up working, because I can, after my kids go to bed, doesn't mean I want to respond to you that late. So trying to put those boundaries in place, I think, is another challenge. Okay.
02:56 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
So with your like current packages and hourly retainer, so they're like paying X number of hours a month, yes, okay, and so what are the services that you have said like go along with that?
03:11 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
So a lot of the times it's managing and overseeing their day-to-day, so making sure whatever they're trying to get done in a week is getting accomplished If they have other people on their team checking in with them, making sure all of their tasks are being completed and really managing. But because I am also like a very good implementer and can get things done very quickly, I've definitely done a lot of that too. So it ends up being like managing email inboxes and doing formatting for emails and stuff like that, which I don't mind. It doesn't take very long to do those things, but that's not where I would love to be. I don't want to do all of the teeny tiny tasks anymore. And then the social media stuff. I don't mind overseeing and making sure things are getting posted, but a lot of the times they're wanting me to come up with content. Figure out why they aren't getting more views Like. That's not my expertise.
04:12 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
Exactly Okay. So with those clients that you are doing like those smaller tasks for, do they have VAs in place or is it just you?
04:22 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
Just me, yeah, so the one client has another person who does some social media for them, but they kind of like like just stopped like helping them. I don't know what happened there, but it's basically just me now and the other client that I have. They have multiple people on their team, but they're more task oriented for other items, so they have a podcast. So they're doing a lot of podcast editing or things like that, not necessarily what just a traditional VA would do. It's more specialized with podcasts. So then I'm there to kind of pick up the slack and do all the other things.
05:01 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
So for the ones that say, like, don't have a, VA and you don't have a VA.
05:05 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
I don't Not right now, no
Amanda McVicker (Host)
So someone is going to have to do that work, and so it's making the decision of do you want to hire a VA to take care of those things and still have that be under your purview, or do you suggest to your client hey, I'm focused on all of this over here, or I don't want to be doing these things anymore. You need to hire someone to take over it, and so that could be reducing your hours, creating a smaller package We'll talk about this in a sec on like the hourly versus package kind of difference, because I actually think that it's so much easier to enforce your boundaries in an hourly package and an hour retainer, because when the hours are up, if that's what you want, if you choose to spend your time like the money on, yeah, well, you pay me $70 an hour to post something on social media or you know, find someone else who can do that, but so it's like that first thing is kind of like making the decision like, do you want to keep those tasks but outsource it to someone else? Have someone on your team who takes over those things, or go to your clients and say, hey, this is not in my wheelhouse. I mean, you can definitely do that for more of the specialized things, like you're not like I say this to my clients all the time Like I can help you to an extent, but like you want someone who's going to be really, really, really good at this and like really get you results, you are so much better off hiring someone else to do that who is specialized and that's and it like it's a service to them to say that like, yeah, we can do it, we can google it, we can figure it out, but it's great as, like, say, a podcast specialist or a Pinterest manager, you know something like that. That's where all of their effort and training goes into. And so it's kind of like for those things, I would say, like automatically, like you need to hire someone else for that, yeah.
07:19
Or the smaller things, like kind of sit with it. See, what is it that you want to be doing? You know, if it's they hire a VA. Obviously you would be over that VA, like you would write the training, do the management things like that. If it's your own va, again your training managing all of that. But then they, yeah, it's the same va for multiple clients. So I like I have a VA who I use for the recurring tasks the daily, weekly, monthly. That it's a very easy thing to pass off and as an OBM, I've been an OBM with my clients three, four years, some of them, I'm it Like I will do the social media posting and the approving requests like all of that stuff. So it's kind of like picking and choosing, but again in like that hourly package, once I hit those 20 hours, okay, well, you can pay me more or we can push this off to next month. How do you feel about that?
08:23 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
Yeah, I definitely agree that it would help enforce boundaries, and it does help enforce boundaries. I just don't like tracking time. I've been in management before I started my own business. I was in management so I was salary and I haven't tracked time for 10 years almost. And then going back to tracking time and doing hourly packages like yeah, it's just hitting like play or whatever, like on toggle, but like still, I forget so many times and it's just such a pain.
08:54 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
Yeah, that is one of the things with it.
08:56
I definitely get that, and in still like the package time. I would still recommend, like, if you did a package retainer, yeah, tracking your time, just to make sure like it all makes sense. So I feel like kind of you really can't get away from it. But if it's something that you like absolutely do hate, then maybe look at packages. It's just it's not harder to keep those boundaries, it's just there is a lot more potential for scope creep right where, yeah, technically this could like fit underneath here, and so you just have to be a lot firmer with saying like this is what I am doing this week, if you have something else that you think needs priority, because then they also try to like push more things, because technically it's, yeah, unlimited time, and so you have to be really firm with it, which is why I usually recommend the hourly retainer and why I have kept with it for yeah, I definitely appreciate that insight because you never know like there's some people who are out there and like get away from hourly, only do packages, and I get that.
10:04 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
But also I appreciate your insight because it is easier than to be like sorry, like this is whater side is that there is a number attached to the hour?
10:23 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
And you know, as you creep up and up like saying oh, I charge $100 an hour is going to make a client go like well, hold on there. Like yeah, like a lot. And then at some point you kind of hit a cap. And with packages you can be like like well, I will handle your systems and your team management and your launches and stuff for a nice 2500 package. And it's like the hours you don't know, you don't know what the rate is and yeah, there are pros and cons to both.
10:53
And I know, with the feeling of hourly, like you get quick at what you do, like knock stuff out in half the time that it used to need to do something, and it's like for sure.
11:04
But and now it's time gets tracked like that's annoying and it does seem like there is a cap on like the hourly what you're able to get there, but in like kind of the overall and I feel this especially as a mom with kids running around I want to go into a month knowing what I have committed to, to know that I am not like expected to put in extra hours to.
11:34
You know, get something, we can get to that in a second. Because I know like yeah, in your form of like if it's during dinner or on the weekends or something like that. Yeah, and with a package like, it's really hard to kind of like separate that. Well, technically, like it's a package and they need it right now and all of that stuff, yeah. So just kind of pros and cons on both and it's really about figuring out what works best for you. I just always lean towards the hour Now on the saying no when you're outside of the office and it's not office hours and stuff. So how do you communicate or like in the beginning, how do you communicate to your clients what your boundaries are?
12:19 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
So I have a very nice welcome packet that I have put together. It says like when, how I can be reached and when I can be reached and everything like that. And I do mention in there that because I have little ones I mean I have four little ones, six and under, so doing things just eight to five or nine to five, like it doesn't happen because they're all home with me. We homeschool too, so it's just not possible to get everything done in normal working hours. So I might be up earlier, I might be working at nap time, I might be up at 11 o'clock at night doing work, but that's when it works for me. But that doesn't, like I said earlier, it doesn't mean I want to like talk to clients at that time. Just because I'm responding doesn't, like I said earlier, it doesn't mean I want to talk to clients at that time. Just because I'm responding doesn't mean that you need to. Or vice versa, because you know that I'm probably up working doesn't mean that you should reach out and say, hey, I need this done first thing in the morning or right now, so it can be done in the morning.
13:14
So I do have a packet that I put together. When we sign a contract, do they read it? Don't know. I have tracking where I can see if they've opened the email, but that doesn't mean that they've actually read through the packet. So I communicate it in the beginning when I'm available, kind of set the expectations that way. But it seems like then, as we go on, because they know that I might be up after bedtime, after the kids go to bed at nine, 11 o'clock, that they can then say, hey, kaylee, like can you do this for me, can you do this? And I feel badly just not responding and like ignoring them because I am working like that's when I do a lot of my work. But, like I said, it's just like that's my zone, like that's my time to get all of those things done without interruptions. So then when they're emailing me or sending me like a voxer, that late at night, it's just not great no, I get that.
14:10 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
Do you give in your communication on like hours and stuff? Do you give a turnaround time? That's kind of like your standard.
14:19 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
Yeah, so I say during the day, if they're contacting me like normal working hours so I think I've got like eight to six or something like that I'll respond within two to three hours, which for me and having a million kids running around like two to three hours is pretty good. I feel like am I going to respond immediately? Most times no, but that's again why I put that in there. And then I do say if they contact me after that, typically the next business day, so I have it there, it's in there, it's just so hard to enforce it yeah.
14:51 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
I get that. I'm the same way. You know, I have three young kids and I'm working late at night. I have clients like texting me, like hey, can you get real quick? And it's been something that I've kind of put in place and you know there are different seasons that it's helpful. And one of the things is we're going into summer, right, yeah, you could do a blanket reset to your clients Like hey, just want to update you with summer hours, remember blah, blah, blah. And now there's a 24-hour communication, turnaround time or something, or just reinforce what it is that you said and then stick to it.
15:28
And so, and if that means turning off boxer notifications when you are working late, going on, do not disturb, or just turning your phone off, putting it aside, turn off the notifications. I know that's way easier. It's so hard. Yeah, I totally understand that. But if you're, if you're wanting that time to focus on the work, that would be my recommendation. Like, try it.
15:54
I don't know if you have like a schedule of, like you know, Monday, Wednesday, Fridays, I work from seven to nine or whatever. Make a reminder seven o'clock, do not disturb. Seven to nine or whatever. Make a reminder seven o'clock, do not disturb, turn things off, whatever, and so then you can focus on that work. If you happen to see a notification come through and you like you read it and you're like I need to respond to this right now, okay cool, I'll get this done tomorrow Like add to the queue so that you are not doing it like right at that moment, but you still are responding to it, so you feel better about it, and then, like try to work back to not even responding to it, I understand, like sometimes I have to respond to things to like not miss something, but putting it on the list for the next day, yeah, I'll tackle it first thing in the morning, they don't need it at 11 o'clock at night they get it.
16:49 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
At most times they don't, yeah. So I think it's just so hard because we're all like tuned in and dialed in all the time, like we have our phones, we have social media, we have email, like, and we're all so accessible, and it's so hard to just like turn that off for them and for us.
17:07 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
I feel like yeah and yeah, honestly to them, they might not even realize it. They might be working on their business at 11 o'clock at night and be like, oh, I need to just text her, else I'm gonna forget. And it might not be. They need it right now and it just so happens that you know it connects. Something else that I do if I am working late and I'm sending things is I will schedule sent and so that I will get it out, but they won't get it until the morning. That helps Because even if, like, you're both doing work, it doesn't mean that you'll be doing it together.
17:46 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
Yeah, makes sense.
17:49 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
So it really is just kind of making that commitment to hold those boundaries and taking away the notifications and turning things off, like those are going to be the tools that help you to commit to those boundaries. Yeah absolutely Makes sense, I know, I was just doing it.
18:11
And it's like I wish there was something easier. Yeah, and you know, something else is because I know you said in your form, like you want to do this, because you want to be their go-to person, you want to be looked at as going above and beyond, super valuable and all that stuff. But the thing is like, all of the work that you provide to them is valuable. Whether it's 11 o'clock at night or 11 o'clock in the morning, you get the work done for them. You make their life so much easier, their business so much easier. Like you are valuable without sacrificing yourself and your free time and your family time. And you actually are more valuable keeping your boundaries, because then you're not going to burn out, you're not going to just burn it all down right. Like you're taking care of yourself, your family, first, and then you're able to show up better for your.
19:14 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
Yeah, I love it. I think this is just the thing I needed to start putting my boundaries in place yes, honestly, summer like, use that as the excuse.
19:24 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
Like, even if nothing's changed, here are my new summer hours reminder on the communication. Here's when I'll be out on vacation, like you can do like a quarterly check-in on those things. Just hey, just wanted to remind everyone what my communication boundaries are. You don't have to say boundaries, but like communication procedures, processes, whatever. Let me know if you got this right. Yeah, something I do for new clients also, because I know they don't read anything. Yeah, I put it on my contract, like my policies and procedures, which include my hours and turnaround time, and I require them to initial it. That's a good idea. Just helps how?
20:03
you know they saw more thing even if they're just going through the form and initialing it like you can bring it back, Like you did initial this. This is what we talked about. Yeah.
20:14 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
I love that. Right now Mine's just in my client like welcome packet, so I think yeah.
20:20 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
And I talk about it in my onboarding strategy call, like I make sure to talk about it everywhere.
20:27 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, you have to say it and put it in print I think a million times for it to sink in.
20:33 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
Exactly. So how does that all feel?
20:36 - Kaleigh Tracy (Guest)
Yeah, good, super helpful. Honestly, I think a lot of those things like I know that I needed to do, but just hearing someone else be like, listen, this is what you need to do. It's super helpful, for sure.
20:47 - Amanda McVicker (Host)
So I appreciate it. Thanks for joining me for this episode of the OBM Educator. I hope what you heard today is helpful for you on your OBM journey. If you loved today's episode, I would so appreciate you sharing it and leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform. Want to be a guest on the OBM Educator? Fill out the form in the show notes and I'll be in touch. Join us next time on The OBM Educator.
